Simulator "Stacks" Theorycrafting

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edited June 2014 in MPQ Events, Tournaments, and Missions
So, as far as I can figure, the devs have once again decided to Calvinball the mechanics behind PvE node stacks without the slightest hint of documentation, as is tradition. The hard-refresh time of 8 or 12 hours is evidently a thing of the past; once a node has been encountered, it seems to be on a continual-refresh mode of regenerating points every five minutes until it gets back to 100%, according to the sharp eyes of Lyrian here. We should expect further complications.

Anyway, this thread is for gathering data and theorycrafting what the flaming tinykitty the new rules to Calvinball are, lest the unwashed hordes take all of our precious covers by lucking into the right combinations of play. I know Lyrian and Sumilea have paid very close attention to the numbers in the past and the contribution of their expertise would be deeply appreciated, but if anyone has observations into the flow of numbers, please enlighten us. Do note that your node values will fluctuate as a result of both base value regeneration and rubberbanding multipliers, so try to separate out those effects when/if possible. Sadly, I don't think we know whether the rubberbanding system has also changed and there's already been speculation of a new confounding mechanic as well, so...this will be messy. You have been warned; there will be math.
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  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    On the Hard high point nodes, I computed that after clearing the node once, it would get back to its max level in 2 hours and 23 minutes. Basically we've entered the world of non-stop grinding.
  • Unknown
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    I think they're using a quote from the Restaurant at the End of the Universe as one of their planning documents for PVE design (it also works for MMR):

    “There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”
  • Unknown
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    I approve of turning Calvinball into a verb.

    icon_e_biggrin.gif


    Clearly there must be some kind of point caps on these refreshes (relative to your leaderboard). Otherwise you'd have subs/main leaderboards where the leaders could possibly be 10's of thousands points ahead of those outside of the top 10.

    Although, maybe that's going to be the case once we are 6 days into this event.
  • Unknown
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    Can confirm the points creep.
    One thing I cannot understand is the rising and falling of enemy levels, sometimes by 30 levels for no reason. For example, the node with 3 black widows bounced from lv 48 to 78 then back 48 in half an hour of play. the only thing i did was play other nodes which had the best point values and noticed the dramatic rise and fall of the levels.
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Pretty sure the high end of the nodes are effected by rubberbanding. Highest points ive seen for a single node was over 2000 points. That was after starting the event, hitting nodes once for sub 1000 points, then letting them sit for hours until my bracket went up.
  • morgh
    morgh Posts: 539 Critical Contributor
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    2.5 hour for a single clear refresh? -.-

    that's completely and utterly absurd... what are they thinking?
  • Unknown
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    morgh wrote:
    2.5 hour for a single clear refresh? -.-

    that's completely and utterly absurd... what are they thinking?

    Why? We had the stack of 5 refreshed after 12h, 5x2.5 ~= 12 so we have the analogue version of similar rate.
  • Tharos
    Tharos Posts: 129
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    pasa_ wrote:
    morgh wrote:
    2.5 hour for a single clear refresh? -.-

    that's completely and utterly absurd... what are they thinking?

    Why? We had the stack of 5 refreshed after 12h, 5x2.5 ~= 12 so we have the analogue version of similar rate.

    And with the rubberbanding in action, it is easy to go back in points as if you never missed a refresh.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    pasa_ wrote:
    morgh wrote:
    2.5 hour for a single clear refresh? -.-

    that's completely and utterly absurd... what are they thinking?

    Why? We had the stack of 5 refreshed after 12h, 5x2.5 ~= 12 so we have the analogue version of similar rate.
    The difference is that doing a full clear once every 12 hours isn't the way to maximize your points anymore. It's hitting each node once at the max value once every 2.5 hours. I'd much rather play once every 12 hours than every 2.5 hours.
  • Colognoisseur
    Colognoisseur Posts: 804 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2014
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    There has definitely been a change.
    I finished one pass of all nodes from 6-7:30AM this morning.

    When I saw this thread I started monitoring the value of the Essentials in Easy and Hard
    Here is what I've seen for the last couple of hours

    1:27PM 451 (Easy) 912 (Hard)
    1:49 481 912
    2:17 481 978
    3:06 488 1020
    3:27 492 1046
    3:57 568 1089
    4:27 568 1146
    4:57 590 1167
    I'm not near the top of the standings so I don't know if this is rubberbanding or recharge taking place. It is not uniform as Easy went up 41 points while Hard went up 134 points. Would seem that the rubberband would've applied equally if the nodes were at full recharge.
  • Unknown
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    You guys play the low points nodes ?

    They are damn hard and bring close to nothing pointwise. So the following nodes haven't been opened yet.
  • Unknown
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    Both the recharge and rubberband can be going on at the same time, though from the player's point of view it's not important which is happening as long as you know when the recharge is complete.
  • morgh
    morgh Posts: 539 Critical Contributor
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    Having to play every 2.5 hours vs. having to play every 12 hours is a damn big a change... and a terrible one too...

    You HAVE TO play more... unless you don't care about the rewards like thankfully in this event... and you STILL need to play the last refresh as close as possible to the end...
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Anyone else get the impression that the node max deteriorates every time you play it? If that's the case, maybe playing each node at the max once every 2.5 hours isn't the best way to go...
  • Unknown
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    simonsez wrote:
    Anyone else get the impression that the node max deteriorates every time you play it? If that's the case, maybe playing each node at the max once every 2.5 hours isn't the best way to go...

    That's the effect of the rubberband diminishing, a sign that you are catching up to the leaders.
  • Deivid
    Deivid Posts: 9 Just Dropped In
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    One thing I noticed is that the first node in easy/hard is always 63/125, it doent seem to get affected by rubberbanding, so I'm using that to compare, I did the 3 essentials and the first node about 1:30 hours ago. The first node is at 112 points, so I know it hasnt fully refreshed yet.
    Another thing is that it seem that the essential nodes are double the las node (the one with de 1k/2k iso), atm last node (havent cleared it again after the first time) is 420 and essentials 768.
  • Unknown
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    morgh wrote:
    Having to play every 2.5 hours vs. having to play every 12 hours is a damn big a change... and a terrible one too...

    You HAVE TO play more... unless you don't care about the rewards like thankfully in this event... and you STILL need to play the last refresh as close as possible to the end...

    You play significantly less missions but the timing of the missions is significantly more straining.

    That said it's kind of nice to not have to worry about if you forget if a mission actually refreshed and hit something just before it hits 100%, though the problems of this system far outweighs the gains.
  • morgh
    morgh Posts: 539 Critical Contributor
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    simonsez wrote:
    Anyone else get the impression that the node max deteriorates every time you play it? If that's the case, maybe playing each node at the max once every 2.5 hours isn't the best way to go...
    The "max" only seems to go down since you get closer to the leader and thus the RB portion lowers
  • morgh
    morgh Posts: 539 Critical Contributor
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    Phantron wrote:
    morgh wrote:
    Having to play every 2.5 hours vs. having to play every 12 hours is a damn big a change... and a terrible one too...

    You HAVE TO play more... unless you don't care about the rewards like thankfully in this event... and you STILL need to play the last refresh as close as possible to the end...

    You play significantly less missions but the timing of the missions is significantly more straining.

    That said it's kind of nice to not have to worry about if you forget if a mission actually refreshed and hit something just before it hits 100%, though the problems of this system far outweighs the gains.
    I aint sure the "significantly fewer" part is correct... I would say that you have to play more missions - which results in higher both personal and community scaling ;/
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    morgh wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    morgh wrote:
    Having to play every 2.5 hours vs. having to play every 12 hours is a damn big a change... and a terrible one too...

    You HAVE TO play more... unless you don't care about the rewards like thankfully in this event... and you STILL need to play the last refresh as close as possible to the end...

    You play significantly less missions but the timing of the missions is significantly more straining.

    That said it's kind of nice to not have to worry about if you forget if a mission actually refreshed and hit something just before it hits 100%, though the problems of this system far outweighs the gains.
    I aint sure the "significantly fewer" part is correct... I would say that you have to play more missions - which results in higher both personal and community scaling ;/

    Compared to the usual strategy you play way less missions with an optimal strategy.

    However the optimal strategy is only optimal if other people don't know about it. Otherwise you end up having to grind again.

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