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  • What's really stupid about this whole mess is that it was very easily avoidable with just a little bit a savvy, a shred of humanity, and a hint of common sense. All they had to do was send Nonce a PM and say the following. "Hey, man. We appreciate everything you've done, clearing spam, etc. etc., but it's come to our attention that you've been posting a lot of negative stuff. So here's what we're going to do. If you want to stay a mod we need you to 1) stop posting negative stuff and 2) post a public apology saying your views are in no way associated with our company. If you agree you get to keep your mod status, but we'll be keeping an eye on your posts moving forward and if things don't work out your privileges will be removed."

    Would Nonce have agreed to this? I don't know. That would be up to him. But even if he tells them to **** off it gives them an easy out. "Hey, we gave him a choice. He told us to **** off." If he agrees they get his continued services as a really good mod and a PR win. But instead they went, as usual, with the most heavy-handed tactic they could and just laid the hammer down. So here we are, pissed off community, mired in controversy, down a good mod. Good job, team. Good work all around. Keep it up.
  • Der_Lex
    Der_Lex Posts: 1,035 Chairperson of the Boards
    user311 wrote:
    I have seen this thread on the first page of this forum for some time now. I never opened it other than the first time. I am posting now just to say that whoever is given mod rights going forward needs to get those rights as a separate account. I think now we have seen 2 moderators lose their rights because of "player posts". I think that if the development team wants to promote a player to moderator then they need to require this separate account requirement. Everything is about perception. There are a lot a of dim witted people out there and certainly one of them saw Nonce as a moderator and assumed he was on the development team.

    I've been a volunteer mod on another video game company's forum for years now (even though I'm now semi-retired). I've never needed a separate account, and I used to be a very active poster, as well as a vocal critic of some of their decisions (most notably a lot of things to do with EU distribution of their stuff). On that forum, it's easy: only devs are allowed (and all have) a name that starts with the company's initials. Anyone without a name that starts with those initials isn't speaking for the company. Over here, anyone whose name isn't in red, doesn't represent the company, but if worst comes to worst, volunteer mods could always have a little 'views expressed in this post are personal and in no way represent D3) as a disclaimer in their sig. Of course, it also helps when the company in question has a good relationship with their playerbase and doesn't ignore or throw a hissy fit at any form of criticism, even if it's just an 'I hear you, but we can't/won't do anything about that right now', and actually has somewhat of a presence on their own forums beyond the one guy that drew the short straw.

    Volunteer modurators (well, good volunteer moderators, and nobody can deny Nonce was a good mod) do a crapton of work that is supposed to be done by paid employees, and they do it for FREE. Of course helping out a community you like is a reward in its own way, but if anything, D3 should be showering them with praise, heartfelt thanks, possibly freebies for the things they do on here. Instead, as a 'reward' for the 'privilege', their speech is limited and if they happen do irk the wrong D3 dev with a word of criticism, they're kicked out the door. I sincerly hope nobody is dumb enough to voluntarily sign up for that after this incident.
  • Der_Lex wrote:
    I now understand why Ice didn't want to share that publically. It makes his higher-ups seem like petty tyrants that, instead of using valid criticism to improve their game, try to stamp it out instead.

    I'm starting to really question their decision and ability to get into social gaming. Sure, they can make a pretty good match 3 game (although the quality of their games has, in my opinion, been on a downward slide since the original Puzzle Quest), but their handling of the social aspects of MPQ has been abysmal. Communication is erratic, their handling if the forums is such a mess that an unofficial forum would probably do a better job than the official forums, player feedback seems to be disregarded or downright disapproved of, and one of the main social features of the game, Alliances, is still ridiculously bare-bones long after its initial implementation.

    I have some hopes that a fulltime community manager can improve matters, but this whole affair makes me fear that he'll just end up in the sale situation Ice is in now: left to the whims of higher-ups who have no idea how to cultivate ab actual community and loyal fanbase, and spending all of his time making excuses for their mistakes.

    I realize this is a rather harsh post, but it's not just rough to see a prominent and constructive member of the community get **** like this, but also to see, by reading between the lines, just how little our opinions here seem to matter when we're not being good little sheep that sing the game and the company's praises. Protip, D3: we're much more likely to do so when you actually give us some valid reasons to do so for a change.

    I don't blame Ice either. We had to fire you because "customers" didn't like a company representative diverging from officially approved talking points has to be among the all time great lies that inexplicably are employed despite not fooling a small child. And let's be clear, Ice is the messenger here, I don't hold him at fault for being forced to to delivering embarrassingly, transparent lies in the course of the public relations part of his job. I fault the higher ups for being too incompetent to either craft a halfway plausible lie, or if that's too much work, just come out with the unflattering truth. It's not like they're tricking anyone. I'd still disagree with the decision, but at least they wouldn't be hiding behind laughably fictitious customer complaints.
  • Thugpatrol wrote:
    While I strongly disagree with how Nonce was treated, I did not have a problem with them choosing who can be a mod, and I do not feel they owe any one an explanation. They don't have to have a forum site. They don't have to allow negative comments concerning their product or company. I am grateful that they have a place where we as players can gather. I'm quite confident that mpq would not be nearly as fun or playable if not for this forum.
    They don't have to have an official forum, and they don't have to allow negative comments on it. But this is the internet. If this forum didn't exist for people to flock to you can be sure someone would have set up an unofficial forum where most of us would have wound up anyway. And you know what? It would probably be run better by people like Nonce. They don't have to do anything to have an online presence, but this is an online game in an online world. Better to have an official forum where they can try and control things to some degree.

    It's called public relations, and they're very bad at it. Ice tries, but lately he's been give the unenviable task of taking pretty tinykitty information to the torch and pitchfork wielding mob and trying to smile while doing it. So they're hiring a full time community manager, but as long as that person is given the same tinykitty material and the decisions are made by the same people who don't seem to give a tinykitty about trying to be a decent, respectable, and accountable company, we're going to get the same tinykitty treatment. Do they owe us answers? No. Nobody is owed anything. But we represent a group of customers and potential customers, and we deserve to be treated fairly lest we take our business elsewhere. So when you remove power without so much as a warning from a popular member of the community who was doing thankless work as a volunteer to keep this place running and then hide behind the shield of "we're not going to talk about it", you look very bad.

    This is exactly right. Technically, they don't need to run a forum. But in practical terms, they do. There will always be a top google result for "marvel puzzle quest forums", and it's a lot better for them to be able to exert some damage control over the forums. Even if it's cluttered up with a lot of disgruntled customers, it's unlikely that an unaffiliated forum would be more flattering.

    And I agree, Ice is very good at it, but he's a busy guy, and often the official messenger of management. Management seems to be filled by a bunch of bumbling Inspector Clouseau types who lucked into hiring a workforce competent enough to mostly overcome their many, many deficiencies.
  • IceIX wrote:
    I I'm reaching out to locked and johnaaron at the least to see if they can take up some of the slack in general moderation that you will leave.

    Nonce, You were a GREAT mod. And for the higher ups to dismiss someone who actually cared not only about the game but the forums as well, shows their lack of connection to us. You have a passion that burns bright. You made our forums better and started thought provoking discussions.

    SHAME ON WHO EVER MADE THE FINAL DECISION! SHAME! icon_evil.gif


    Ice has not contacted me. But I am not so sure that I would accept even if he did at this point. I love the game and the community here. But if the "higher up's" thought you were too mouthy, oooh weee, wait til they get a load of me. LOL. There is a reason that I was known as the "Renegade" at my last job for 7.5 years. But being the Renegade just landed me a my next corporate career move that will more than likely have me in the position of a "higher up" by the end of the year.

    I hope you stick around. I enjoy reading your opinion pieces!!
  • Spoit
    Spoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well if it took Nonce using his official status to elevate the complaints of the masses to get things back to 'normal' around here, then I say thank you good sir for poking them hard enough that they couldn't ignore you any longer.
    Welcome back to being one of the mob, let be buy you a drink.
    I mean, at least this got people other than IceIX to apparently see some complaints?
  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    Nonce, I'm sorry you got punished for caring.
    I wish I could say I'm surprised that it happened, but we all know that knee-jerk reflex is the only reflex they have.
  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    Clintman wrote:
    Someone complained and Nonce get canned?
    He sent me a PM blaming me for it when I had nothing to do with it, so I've got no sympathy for the guy.
  • _RiO_
    _RiO_ Posts: 1,047 Chairperson of the Boards
    :: Salutes Nonce ::
    You shall be missed and surely the forum shall weep over the loss of your efforts within the fortnight.

    :: Tips hat to IceIX ::
    Those not blinded by spite will certainly recognize that you're not happy with the whole situation either and that your hand was forced by powers that be.
    Personally, while I'm critical of the direction that the game itself has been taking, I also recognize that you handle the job of liaison as professionally as you can, while still abiding the company line. Wearing a smile while conversing with a ****-mob has got to be a job no sane person would envy. For what it's worth, with the little time you are given for it, you're still managing a decent job of it. Thank you.

    Having said that; I can only hope that the higher-ups realize what a stupid, stupid, and I reiterate: STUPIDLY stupid knee-jerk reaction it was to have Nonce's mod powers stripped away from him behind the scenes and with such litlte forewarning. It does not paint a pretty picture of upper management, that's for sure...
  • Nonce Equitaur 2
    Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    _RiO_ wrote:
    :: Salutes Nonce ::
    You shall be missed and surely the forum shall weep over the loss of your efforts within the fortnight.

    I dunno .. the spam-fighting measures I finally wrangled out of IceIX seem to be fairly effective. I don't expect any schadenfreude.
  • Nonce Equitaur 2
    Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    Here's a page for those with 0 posts. When IceIX implemented the oft-requested spam-fighting measures on July 28, the creation of fake accounts for spam suddenly stopped.

    andra963 0 -1 Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:17 pm
    parosharma425 0 -1 Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:41 pm
    dfg29Dcbv 0 -51 Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:55 pm
    tczx96cvff 0 -50 Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:10 pm
    jeannineharris89 0 -50 Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:47 pm
    Sobsed 0 -51 Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:43 pm
    rosablun 0 -51 Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:01 pm
    onzisyan 0 0 Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:03 pm
    hvxekzsm 0 0 Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:14 am
  • Just out of curiosity, how is it even possible for a company to suck at public relations this hard?

    No, seriously, how the hell does that even work? How does a long-standing game development company fail at public relations this hard?

    "Hey guys, the one moderator who actually did anything occasionally has some bad things to say about business practices which any idiot can see are bad for the player. What should we do?" "Fire him with no warning or announcement, and hope that he somehow makes it better to the rest of the forum."
    "Hey guys, we have a nerf planned for a wildly popular character that significantly changes how he plays. When should we do it?" "How about... right after we give him away as a reward?"
    "Hey guys, we've had these major buffs on the docket for 6 months now, isn't it about time we at least said something about them?" "Nah, they can wait, plus changing these other characters unannouncedly is more important."

    Way to instil confidence, guys.