zapzap wrote: And you could compete in 3 tournaments simultaneously. So you can have extended time of gameplay without healing needed. That's the principle of many F2P games, where low levels can enter some tournaments, but have prizes in relation with their levels
qtquazar wrote: Get rid of event healing completely. When a character goes down in an event, he/she is done. Period. No health packs, nothing.
BlackDog wrote: This idea is amazing, at least for PvE. I assume that your characters would start fresh at the beginning of each event, and by the end of the event you are down to very carefully trying to figure out where you can get points with the remnants of your roster. Imagine, you might actually find yourself using that Bagman and Yelena to win a few points. No grinding, no scaling, no prologue healing, no MMR. I think that the new temporary healing model might even fit in nicely. Instead of selling health boosts, sell boosts for a whole character like those that are currently given to featured characters in each event?
Jjosh wrote: I came into this prepared and hoping to hate you idea, qtquazar. But I reluctantly fell in love with it. Good idea to actually promote diversity and put basically everyone in your tier in the same boat as you. In this case I'm thinking opponent levels would have to be controlled somehow, but clearly not in the current fashion. I'm thinking something that changes more fluidly on a personal level like "level of highest char with still alive minus level of lowest char still alive" or something. It avoids abuse b/c to lower that number you'd either have to kill your high characters and fight the lower opps with your lower characters, or murder the lower end of your roster. And even people who do that will eventually kill their 141s by the end of a long event and be screwed in the long run. So as opposed to levels increasing over an event they'd actually steadily decrease. One piece of constructive criticism towards this otherwise good idea is that entering a tier based on having a single maxed character will screw over that player; competing in a bracket full of people with 6 Tanky 141s when all you have is a single 141 Falcon would be a huge issue and you wouldn't be able to keep up. So maybe shard it more by having tiers of 1-2 maxed, 3-4, and 6+ or something But overall I have to say (reluctantly, of course ) good idea
qtquazar wrote: I suspect what would happen is people would start with the mid-to-low end of their roster, and gradually wipe characters until everyone was fighting with their best. But I'm not sure. I'd actually be curious to see what came out of the mix.
dlaw008 wrote: I think it's pretty funny though that everyone in this thread seems to think it's genius while if IceIX posted saying they intend to eliminate healing altogether... well I can't imagine what the outcry would be like.
dlaw008 wrote: Actually, the idea's not terrible. It could work. I think it's pretty funny though that everyone in this thread seems to think it's genius while if IceIX posted saying they intend to eliminate healing altogether... well I can't imagine what the outcry would be like.
qtquazar wrote: I will say, with a dose of salacious irony, I'm glad to see prologue healing gone. It is nice to see a change that screws the mid-tiers for once, instead of just the vets. OK, now that I've made new friends, here's the idea: Get rid of event healing completely. When a character goes down in an event, he/she is done. Period. No health packs, nothing. If you want to implement a P2W mechanism, give a boost that *temporarily* INCREASES a team's health. Recommend you only do this for PvE, to prevent riots. Separate the three tiers into a genuine 1*, 2* and 3* tier. As soon as you use ANY character from a higher tier int he tourney, you've graduated. Shard based on tier, not performance. This gives players motivation to rise up and master a tier before moving on, amd incentivizes building 1* and 2* competence and rosters. Get rid of the terrible, terrible 1* and 2* rewards for everybody. Nobody thinks that's a good idea and it can't lead to any monetization. The above would force/reward: Roster diversity and depth, and even multiple copies of chars as a viable tactic (albeit unlikely since it would cripple your versatility) Player strategy about whom to pit against whom at what point of their run Elimination of grinding while still incentivizing boost purchasing and character development Increased tension and strategic analysis of playstyle Shorter bursts of play with higher reward potential Most important of all, it would make the game tinykitty interesting again. People would have to use a variety of characters and strategies, and make some unlikely or sub-optimal pairings in order to advance their best teams. If people are really loathe to give up on healing, set it to a 24hr basis or something, so you get your chars back after a day. This game could be so much better with so little effort. You're never going to monetize health packs--doing something like this would encourage people to spend money on short bursts of play, improve their rosters, and reduce burnout. Honestly, guys, try something. We're tired of 'changes' that no-one in the community wanted or asked for, overnerfing critical characters (yes, CStorm, Rags, Thor and Spidey all need to be nerfed, but every time it's been overkill) and lame PR justifications from IceIX for the dev team (really? you're making the game less boring for us? I like you, but that's the worst line I've ever been asked to swallow from a dev/mod). Make a better game, and we'll pay you. Make us *want* to give you money again.
NorthernPolarity wrote: qtquazar wrote: I will say, with a dose of salacious irony, I'm glad to see prologue healing gone. It is nice to see a change that screws the mid-tiers for once, instead of just the vets. OK, now that I've made new friends, here's the idea: Get rid of event healing completely. When a character goes down in an event, he/she is done. Period. No health packs, nothing. If you want to implement a P2W mechanism, give a boost that *temporarily* INCREASES a team's health. Recommend you only do this for PvE, to prevent riots. Separate the three tiers into a genuine 1*, 2* and 3* tier. As soon as you use ANY character from a higher tier int he tourney, you've graduated. Shard based on tier, not performance. This gives players motivation to rise up and master a tier before moving on, amd incentivizes building 1* and 2* competence and rosters. Get rid of the terrible, terrible 1* and 2* rewards for everybody. Nobody thinks that's a good idea and it can't lead to any monetization. The above would force/reward: Roster diversity and depth, and even multiple copies of chars as a viable tactic (albeit unlikely since it would cripple your versatility) Player strategy about whom to pit against whom at what point of their run Elimination of grinding while still incentivizing boost purchasing and character development Increased tension and strategic analysis of playstyle Shorter bursts of play with higher reward potential Most important of all, it would make the game tinykitty interesting again. People would have to use a variety of characters and strategies, and make some unlikely or sub-optimal pairings in order to advance their best teams. If people are really loathe to give up on healing, set it to a 24hr basis or something, so you get your chars back after a day. This game could be so much better with so little effort. You're never going to monetize health packs--doing something like this would encourage people to spend money on short bursts of play, improve their rosters, and reduce burnout. Honestly, guys, try something. We're tired of 'changes' that no-one in the community wanted or asked for, overnerfing critical characters (yes, CStorm, Rags, Thor and Spidey all need to be nerfed, but every time it's been overkill) and lame PR justifications from IceIX for the dev team (really? you're making the game less boring for us? I like you, but that's the worst line I've ever been asked to swallow from a dev/mod). Make a better game, and we'll pay you. Make us *want* to give you money again. I think the basic idea of a one life type of thing is neat, but youd be crazy to switch completely over to this new system and get rid of existing pve. Just as an example of a potential problem: the veterans with all the characters and such would just completely dominate this mode, so you would have literally every single transition player crying their hearts out about how before in pve at least they had a chance, but this new mode makes it pretty impossible for them to compete (basically exactly what were seeing now, but to a greater extent due to how important roster depth would be to this mode). I think an incremental approach where you have this mode as a standalone shield sim type of deal where its up for a month and perhaps has an hp entry fee to incentivize d3 to actually make the mode would be a cool addition to the game.
qtquazar wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: qtquazar wrote: I will say, with a dose of salacious irony, I'm glad to see prologue healing gone. It is nice to see a change that screws the mid-tiers for once, instead of just the vets. OK, now that I've made new friends, here's the idea: Get rid of event healing completely. When a character goes down in an event, he/she is done. Period. No health packs, nothing. If you want to implement a P2W mechanism, give a boost that *temporarily* INCREASES a team's health. Recommend you only do this for PvE, to prevent riots. Separate the three tiers into a genuine 1*, 2* and 3* tier. As soon as you use ANY character from a higher tier int he tourney, you've graduated. Shard based on tier, not performance. This gives players motivation to rise up and master a tier before moving on, amd incentivizes building 1* and 2* competence and rosters. Get rid of the terrible, terrible 1* and 2* rewards for everybody. Nobody thinks that's a good idea and it can't lead to any monetization. The above would force/reward: Roster diversity and depth, and even multiple copies of chars as a viable tactic (albeit unlikely since it would cripple your versatility) Player strategy about whom to pit against whom at what point of their run Elimination of grinding while still incentivizing boost purchasing and character development Increased tension and strategic analysis of playstyle Shorter bursts of play with higher reward potential Most important of all, it would make the game tinykitty interesting again. People would have to use a variety of characters and strategies, and make some unlikely or sub-optimal pairings in order to advance their best teams. If people are really loathe to give up on healing, set it to a 24hr basis or something, so you get your chars back after a day. This game could be so much better with so little effort. You're never going to monetize health packs--doing something like this would encourage people to spend money on short bursts of play, improve their rosters, and reduce burnout. Honestly, guys, try something. We're tired of 'changes' that no-one in the community wanted or asked for, overnerfing critical characters (yes, CStorm, Rags, Thor and Spidey all need to be nerfed, but every time it's been overkill) and lame PR justifications from IceIX for the dev team (really? you're making the game less boring for us? I like you, but that's the worst line I've ever been asked to swallow from a dev/mod). Make a better game, and we'll pay you. Make us *want* to give you money again. I think the basic idea of a one life type of thing is neat, but youd be crazy to switch completely over to this new system and get rid of existing pve. Just as an example of a potential problem: the veterans with all the characters and such would just completely dominate this mode, so you would have literally every single transition player crying their hearts out about how before in pve at least they had a chance, but this new mode makes it pretty impossible for them to compete (basically exactly what were seeing now, but to a greater extent due to how important roster depth would be to this mode). I think an incremental approach where you have this mode as a standalone shield sim type of deal where its up for a month and perhaps has an hp entry fee to incentivize d3 to actually make the mode would be a cool addition to the game. PvE would either be tiered as well, or you could characterize it the way you want. Actually, I would do a lot more loaners (at decent levels) for PvE, so more people can see what these characters can accomplish and the kind of combos they might form. Simulator was an excellent first step in forcing players to at least experiment a little bit more. I think the game currently exists with a very limited (and arbitrary) ruleset that does not do justice to its possibilities. The dev team has so far shown a very lazy approach to 'developing' the actual game--either by nerfing characters, changing cost rates for boosts, etc. We shouldn't' have to be discussing the merits or elimination of tanking... the very fact that tanking needs or doesn't need to exist based on the dev structure is the real problem, as is the limited use of your rosters, as is the total lack of incentive to advance beyond a few highly-leveled characters. The key mechanics of the game need to be rethought, looking for expedient solutions that a) encourgae players to play in shorter but more rewarding bursts and b) incentivize players to spend money in a way that doe not force them to feel degraded as a P2W player. Roster slot limitation, IMHO, is an example of a decent, working mechanic that accomplishes that. Health packs, on the other hand, are not. These dichotomies should be the triggers for better design--rather than trying to 'trick' players into paying money on changes that don't do anything to improve the underlying design. tl;dr Make a better game, and they will come. And pay.
NorthernPolarity wrote: qtquazar wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: qtquazar wrote: I will say, with a dose of salacious irony, I'm glad to see prologue healing gone. It is nice to see a change that screws the mid-tiers for once, instead of just the vets. OK, now that I've made new friends, here's the idea: Get rid of event healing completely. When a character goes down in an event, he/she is done. Period. No health packs, nothing. If you want to implement a P2W mechanism, give a boost that *temporarily* INCREASES a team's health. Recommend you only do this for PvE, to prevent riots. Separate the three tiers into a genuine 1*, 2* and 3* tier. As soon as you use ANY character from a higher tier int he tourney, you've graduated. Shard based on tier, not performance. This gives players motivation to rise up and master a tier before moving on, amd incentivizes building 1* and 2* competence and rosters. Get rid of the terrible, terrible 1* and 2* rewards for everybody. Nobody thinks that's a good idea and it can't lead to any monetization. The above would force/reward: Roster diversity and depth, and even multiple copies of chars as a viable tactic (albeit unlikely since it would cripple your versatility) Player strategy about whom to pit against whom at what point of their run Elimination of grinding while still incentivizing boost purchasing and character development Increased tension and strategic analysis of playstyle Shorter bursts of play with higher reward potential Most important of all, it would make the game tinykitty interesting again. People would have to use a variety of characters and strategies, and make some unlikely or sub-optimal pairings in order to advance their best teams. If people are really loathe to give up on healing, set it to a 24hr basis or something, so you get your chars back after a day. This game could be so much better with so little effort. You're never going to monetize health packs--doing something like this would encourage people to spend money on short bursts of play, improve their rosters, and reduce burnout. Honestly, guys, try something. We're tired of 'changes' that no-one in the community wanted or asked for, overnerfing critical characters (yes, CStorm, Rags, Thor and Spidey all need to be nerfed, but every time it's been overkill) and lame PR justifications from IceIX for the dev team (really? you're making the game less boring for us? I like you, but that's the worst line I've ever been asked to swallow from a dev/mod). Make a better game, and we'll pay you. Make us *want* to give you money again. I think the basic idea of a one life type of thing is neat, but youd be crazy to switch completely over to this new system and get rid of existing pve. Just as an example of a potential problem: the veterans with all the characters and such would just completely dominate this mode, so you would have literally every single transition player crying their hearts out about how before in pve at least they had a chance, but this new mode makes it pretty impossible for them to compete (basically exactly what were seeing now, but to a greater extent due to how important roster depth would be to this mode). I think an incremental approach where you have this mode as a standalone shield sim type of deal where its up for a month and perhaps has an hp entry fee to incentivize d3 to actually make the mode would be a cool addition to the game. PvE would either be tiered as well, or you could characterize it the way you want. Actually, I would do a lot more loaners (at decent levels) for PvE, so more people can see what these characters can accomplish and the kind of combos they might form. Simulator was an excellent first step in forcing players to at least experiment a little bit more. I think the game currently exists with a very limited (and arbitrary) ruleset that does not do justice to its possibilities. The dev team has so far shown a very lazy approach to 'developing' the actual game--either by nerfing characters, changing cost rates for boosts, etc. We shouldn't' have to be discussing the merits or elimination of tanking... the very fact that tanking needs or doesn't need to exist based on the dev structure is the real problem, as is the limited use of your rosters, as is the total lack of incentive to advance beyond a few highly-leveled characters. The key mechanics of the game need to be rethought, looking for expedient solutions that a) encourgae players to play in shorter but more rewarding bursts and b) incentivize players to spend money in a way that doe not force them to feel degraded as a P2W player. Roster slot limitation, IMHO, is an example of a decent, working mechanic that accomplishes that. Health packs, on the other hand, are not. These dichotomies should be the triggers for better design--rather than trying to 'trick' players into paying money on changes that don't do anything to improve the underlying design. tl;dr Make a better game, and they will come. And pay. Sure, but you cant expect a company to go "okay guys, lets throw away 6 months of work tuning our existing pve system and replace that with this entirely new system that may or may not actually be better for our profits". It just doesnt make any sense from a development standpoint, and no lead in their right mind would ever do something like this when there is a far safer alternative such as deploying the change incrementally. Change doesnt happen overnight unless something is seriously messed up, and while the whole forum seems to think that the healing change is precisely that, after a week things are just going to go back to normal just like every other change in the past that was supposdly gamebreaking and spawned a 50 page thread. My point was just that if you honestly want to give d3 some constructive criticism and suggest something that they might actually implement, its probably not a good idea to suggest something that theyll just straight up never do, like completely revamping their pve system overnight.