Use of sensitive symbols in MPQ - 'Colossus'

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h4n1s
h4n1s Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker
edited September 2014 in MPQ General Discussion
So I've been given a chance to use boosted Colossus in recent PVE (Deadpool). I got a bit sick on stomach when my MPQ board became flooded by gems bearing his sign icon_colossus_new.png .

The reason is that my country was for certain (long) period occupied by Russians and non-voluntarily became part of Soviet Union. Without spending so much time on explaining the history, impacts of communism and the effort my nation (incl. my relatives) had to invest to gain freedom again, I need to highlight that this symbol still resonates and brings up very negative feelings and impressions in majority of Central and Easter European countries. In perception of my nation - I dare to compare it to the symbol which made Germany famous during WW2.

I do understand that the fictional character Colossus himself has Soviet history, but I found a bit insensitive the overwhelming usage of this symbolic in a WW game, where this character actually represents the 'good guys'.


Just for illustration of the impacted nations see the map below:
640px-Communism_expansion.png
«134567…10

Comments

  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It's a spot on comment. I come from Poland and this symbol in a game is just simply wrong. It's the same as Nazi Swastika - not difference there. And I bet the swastika would not be used for Red Scull in game.

    Today is the anniversary of the Soviet agression on Poland in 1939 and seeing this in game hurts even more.
  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
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    Well, the star is occupied by Captain America... Maybe Colossus could have a shield emblem? A literal shield, not S.H.I.E.L.D.'s emblem.
    As a former USSR citizen, I would never even guess sickle and hammer could be offensive to some people, at least not without a prompt like this. I don't tend to take symbols to the heart, since symbols don't shoot people, but I'm not a representative either.
    Please do not compare USSR and nazist Germany or their symbols, though - that's quite hurtful for former USSR citizens! While they had a ton in common, USSR suffered the most in WWII in the entire world.
  • Unknown
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    Considering that Vladimir Poutin has the ambition to re-create the great Soviet Union, considering the way he handles geopolitics, considering the Tchechnia war led to the slaughter of 200 000 people because of him (20% of the population), considering the way Ukraine is being invaded, considering he is blackmailing Europe financially...I think this symbol is irrelevant in MPQ.

    I too was somehow disturbed but was thinking it was just me.

    Please change Colossus symbol.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    locked wrote:
    Well, the star is occupied by Captain America... Maybe Colossus could have a shield emblem? A literal shield, not S.H.I.E.L.D.'s emblem.

    Not forgetting that Cap's stars and stripes shield could be offensive to certain people too (not myself, but you know what I mean).

    I guess it's a fair shout to have it changed - but not everyone neccessarily has bad memories of the soviet era and it was fundamentally Stalin who changed the nature of soviet communism from a benevolent state, run for the people, to an expansionist and ideologically fundamentalist regime. Lenin and Trotsky's vision of the communist state (the origin of the hammer and sickle) was a very positive one.
  • h4n1s
    h4n1s Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker
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    locked wrote:
    Please do not compare USSR and nazist Germany or their symbols, though - that's quite hurtful for former USSR citizens! While they had a ton in common, USSR suffered the most in WWII in the entire world.

    I am by no means generalizing and trying to hurt former USSR citizens by comparing the ideology behind swastika and hammer-sickle. What I am highlighting is the potential offensive perception of certain symbols in relation to culture or even a religion.

    Btw I was born at the time when our country was still member of the federation.
  • Unknown
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    DrUnpleasant wrote:
    locked wrote:
    Well, the star is occupied by Captain America... Maybe Colossus could have a shield emblem? A literal shield, not S.H.I.E.L.D.'s emblem.

    Not forgetting that Cap's stars and stripes shield could be offensive to certain people too (not myself, but you know what I mean).

    I guess it's a fair shout to have it changed - but not everyone neccessarily has bad memories of the soviet era and it was fundamentally Stalin who changed the nature of soviet communism from a benevolent state, run for the people, to an expansionist and ideologically fundamentalist regime. Lenin and Trotsky's vision of the communist state (the origin of the hammer and sickle) was a very positive one.

    Indeed.

    Still, the history of communism leaves a sour taste in a lot of Europeans' mouths, and it looks like the ambition and greed of one will have more consequences in the future.

    Capitalism does no more good to the planet when it comes to maximizing the profits of shareholders...
  • Unknown
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    Magic wrote:
    It's a spot on comment. I come from Poland and this symbol in a game is just simply wrong. It's the same as Nazi Swastika - not difference there. And I bet the swastika would not be used for Red Scull in game.

    Today is the anniversary of the Soviet agression on Poland in 1939 and seeing this in game hurts even more.

    I agree with you they would never use a Swastika for Red Skull, would have to be the Hydra emblem - skull with tentacles

    So the same kind of tolerance should be demonstrated
  • Enoc99
    Enoc99 Posts: 141
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    They should use something along the lines of this for his tile image:
    Techno-Organic_Endoskeleton.png
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    I was a bit shocked by that too.

    Maybe the next character can be Sebastian Shaw and his symbol will be a swastika.

    That would be a nice addition to this game.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    They should probably go ahead and put in a placeholder image; the imagery has been pretty depowered in the US, which is probably why it didn't occur to the developers, but is a lot stronger in countries that were actually oppressed by communists.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    Pardon my lazy photoshopping, but what about something like this, based on Colossus' costume?

    mJdGe9q.png
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    Please write a name of your country so next time those evil Russkies go around freeing world from nazi plague, they'd leave you rotting under nazi. Your message is most revolting insult ever.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    Let's just make it a sickle and paintbrush then everyone will be happy.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    arktos1971 wrote:
    Considering that Vladimir Poutin has the ambition to re-create the great Soviet Union, considering the way he handles geopolitics, considering the Tchechnia war led to the slaughter of 200 000 people because of him (20% of the population), considering the way Ukraine is being invaded, considering he is blackmailing Europe financially...I think this symbol is irrelevant in MPQ.

    I too was somehow disturbed but was thinking it was just me.

    Please change Colossus symbol.

    Considering USA bombing millions into fine red pasta in just last decade, 90% of the game heroes should be censored, but thankfully most people are simply realistic. Please keep your nazi fantasies to yourself.
  • Unknown
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    Colossus is a Russian, I can see why they had choosen the symbol for him.

    It may have been Marvel that did so, we don't know.

    I am sorry to hear that this symbol brings up such negative memories and feelings, but as it was once said sometimes a cigar is a cigar.

    Colossus is the 1st Russan hero used in the game, though the Hammer and Sickle would have probibly been better off representing someone like Omega Red.

    Colossus was a Farmer, and Artist first and foremost, so as the poster above me stated take out the hammer and give us a paintbrush.
  • h4n1s
    h4n1s Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker
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    rowaasr13 wrote:
    Please write a name of your country so next time those evil Russkies go around freeing world from nazi plague, they'd leave you rotting under nazi. Your message is most revolting insult ever.

    The topic is about usage of symbols in a world-wide game which may be perceived as sensitive for certain cultures. The topic is not there to blame any nation or judge historic acts certain representatives of the nation done.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    h4n1s wrote:
    rowaasr13 wrote:
    Please write a name of your country so next time those evil Russkies go around freeing world from nazi plague, they'd leave you rotting under nazi. Your message is most revolting insult ever.

    The topic is about usage of symbols in a world-wide game which may be perceived as sensitive for certain cultures. The topic is not there to blame any nation or judge historic acts certain representatives of the nation done.
    I can guarantee you that during the last year many of EU and US symbolic started to "be perceived as sensitive" in Russia. Do you see Russian players demaning censorship of 90% of game? This topic is about stupid and misguided nationalistic pride of some vocal fool, while 99.99999999% other players don't care at all.
  • user311
    user311 Posts: 482 Mover and Shaker
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    I too was surprised when I saw this. Im in the US so it was more a of symbol of the enemy to me rather than a symbol of oppression to others. In the current age of oversensitivity Im really surprised that someone at D3/Demiurge didnt stop and ask if that was appropriate. Im sure those upset and concerned could open a ticket with Apple/Google to inquire about it. I for one would certainly lose my job if I put those images on one of our products to represent Russia.
  • Houtro
    Houtro Posts: 464 Mover and Shaker
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    A symbol suggests an idea, as mental representational! It carries "your" knowledge. History is history, is good for remind us!
  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
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    Black Widow and Yelena Belova are Russian too (so technically Colossus isn't the first Russian character).
This discussion has been closed.

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