negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

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negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby kubrick » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:40 am

i paid $100 last night for purchasing red and green covers of rag and use the remaining hp to raise its level up to five. it is so unhappy wheni found that the nerf thing happened today. according to my business experience (i work in a bank):

if i consider rag is a product, this nerf is a fraud because no product will change its quality so rapidly in a few hours.if this happens we can ask for a refund for sure.

if i am a tenant and i consider i rent rag for a certain time to use it, there should be a contract showing all the terms and conditions of using it, including telling me when it will be nerf. it will give me a chance to plan my effective use of hero points.

according to my experience, negative goodwill may exist after these kind of nerf action
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby Saint Matthew » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:42 am

I'm a businessman myself and in terms of product and support I am completely with you. Lack of ease in access to transaction fine print might be used as protection by D3 in this case.

Send a ticket and I suppose cross your fingers. I'm sorry for your loss, Kubrick.

Btw. Stanley Kubrick movies are amazing. I hope that is where you got your name.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby Toxicadam » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:48 am

You don't 'own' Ragnorak. It's not like a piece of fruit, shelter or a video game. You can't transport it, you can't transform it, you can't even put it on a display case.

It's a digital trinket that belongs on the servers of the developers of MPQ. It's their property inside thier walled garden and you need to abide by their rules if you wish to continue playing in it.

You are merely renting it's use, but they determine the utility of it.


The 'rights' you have as a consumer is to vote with your wallet, inform others around you and learn a lesson from this.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby Saint Matthew » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:50 am

If you rent a movie off of netflicks and halfway through Lord of the Rings Gandalf turned into Samuel L Jackson....wouldn't you be upset? You aren't not owning the movie in any form but you agreed to pay for something with expectations. They, I suppose, have a right to bait and switch but no matter how "right' they are it still leaves a bad taste in the consumers mouth.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby BigMao » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:53 am

I'd be amused if Gandalf was suddenly Samuel L. Jackson. "Hand me my walking stick.. it's the one that says bad motherf***er."

More seriously though, I think the main leverage we have as players / paying customers is the time and money that we spend on this game in the future. I'm not interested in any kind of legal action - rather I hope that the customer service department hears our concerns and works to resolve our problems in a human way.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby jozier » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:53 am

Saint Matthew wrote:If you rent a movie off of netflicks and halfway through Lord of the Rings Gandalf turned into Samuel L Jackson....wouldn't you be upset? You aren't not owning the movie in any form but you agreed to pay for something with expectations. They, I suppose, have a right to bait and switch but no matter how "right' they are it still leaves a bad taste in the consumers mouth.


That's not really a good analogy. A more accurate analogy would be: you signed up for Netflix and fell in love with a movie or TV show on it. And then Netflix removed that show or movie. And that happens all the time.

Everyone is getting worked up about the Rag nerf. There are only two real, unobjectionable facts about the nerf:

1) It would have been better had they announced in advance it was coming (like they sort have done for future "balancing" changes) so that people didn't invest in a character they knew was imminently to be modified

2) The balance/nerf is extreme and has flipped Ragnarok 180 degrees instead of a more gentle demotion from OP to useful.

Other than that, it's screaming from both sides.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby Saint Matthew » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:56 am

I just wanted to see Nick Fury (Jackson) in Lord of the Rings..... actually had that as a strange dream recently. It made for a very entertaining dream. Hence why I used it as an example (even though in hindsight it wasn't a very good example).
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby kubrick » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:01 pm

thank you for your support ...the first thing came to my mind when i found this nerf happed:

can we change the interest rate of our bank product without annoucement?

the answer is negative for sure.

i am 43 now and worked in bank business for almost 20 years. frankly speaking, i seldom know a conpany doing business like this.

i play some other android games and there are some powerful characters existing in those games. the usual way is to design a more powerful character to overide the previous one.
p.s.:i like kubrick movie and watched clockwork orange several times.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby Clintman » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:06 pm

The difference you see here is that in normal rebalancing of MMOs that I have played before everyone is on the same playing field. Everyone paid a subscription fee and there were no options to buy a level 85 toon that had specific abilities. In this instance, a nerf effects everyone equally. it is different when you spend money to make a certain card better, they incentivized the purchase... then turned around and made it valueless.

It would be different if the only way you could get the covers was from a random draw as people could have gotten anything. But the leveling of the cards being a purchasable thing makes this upsetting considering the change.

I think the problem a lot of flamers have is that they think people who spent money on upgrades do not value the money they spent, and they do. When you spend money on something you expect value for that money, and you expect a return on investment.

The bits and bytes having no value is about the most juvenile one I have heard yet. Of course these things have value. An entire itunes collection of movies and songs is just bits and bytes, yet Apple makes billions off of them and people invest money into them. To think that something does not have value unless it is tangible and able to be put in ones had is silly.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby Saint Matthew » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:08 pm

Clint wrote:The bits and bytes having no value is about the most juvenile one I have heard yet. Of course these things have value. An entire itunes collection of movies and songs is just bits and bytes, yet Apple makes billions off of them and people invest money into them. To think that something does not have value unless it is tangible and able to be put in ones had is silly.


I think this is one of the more interesting and will be one of those fascinating topics of the gaming era. It reminds me of a woman who sued for a stolen couch in second life and won because regardless of the digital nature of the couch...it was still a valid business transaction and considered property.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby MarvelMan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:16 pm

jozier wrote:A more accurate analogy would be: you signed up for Netflix and fell in love with a movie or TV show on it. And then Netflix removed that show or movie. And that happens all the time.


This made me think about netflix pulling Star Wars and replacing it in their collection with Space Balls.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby DumDumDugn » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:17 pm

MarvelMan wrote:
jozier wrote:A more accurate analogy would be: you signed up for Netflix and fell in love with a movie or TV show on it. And then Netflix removed that show or movie. And that happens all the time.


This made me think about netflix pulling Star Wars and replacing it in their collection with Space Balls.


space balls is FANTASTIC
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby Eddiemon » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:18 pm

If you actually worked at a part of a bank that dealt with fraud you would know how rubbish your posturing is.

Rags was worth precisely $0 when you traded HP for him, and after the nerf he is still worth precisely $0. You have lost no money as a result of the nerf so fraud is out the window.

Also while you may consider Rag a product, what you bought were HP. The nature of the transaction is important.

Now the devs may refund HP because of the nerf out of good will, but they aren't going to be intimidated by fraud talk.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby Saint Matthew » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:18 pm

Colonel Sandurz: It's Megamaid! She's gone from suck to blow!
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby jozier » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:19 pm

Heh I never actually read the original poster's post.

Man, good thing you work in a bank pushing buttons or whatever. Your conception of the law is way off.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby Kiamodo » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:20 pm

I'm not even close to saying what they did was criminal. Not in the least. Just underhanded and an insult to the players that support the game.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby Saint Matthew » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:20 pm

Do we have any lawyers or law students that play? Out of curiosity I would like their thoughts on this matter.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby jozier » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:21 pm

Saint Matthew wrote:Do we have any lawyers or law students that play? Out of curiosity I would like their thoughts on this matter.


They didn't do anything wrong legally, you don't need to be a lawyer to know that.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby Saint Matthew » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:23 pm

Just would be curious to see what their perspective(s) would be. This is...opinions and I'm no law expert.
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Re: negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Postby jozier » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:26 pm

I'm trying to hint to you that I am a law expert and there is nothing remotely untoward about what Demiurge/D3 has done. Also, they no doubt have counsel that have advised them on issues like this in the past.

You're buying in game currency. That transaction hasn't changed, nor does it matter what your intent was with that currency. Furthermore, if the game shuts down in 2 months, you can't claim for the money you spent anyway. You don't have any rights to this beyond what are given to you. If you paid 100 for 5000 HP and they gave you 50 HP, sure you'd have something to talk about it. Otherwise, nothing.
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