Please change 4* pve reward structure

mischiefmaker · March 2015

Please, please, please change the reward tiers for The Hunt to one of the more standard structures: T100 alliance, and either T10/20/150 or T10/50/150 personal rewards.

I understand that 4*s are special and rare, and it's perfectly reasonable to expect players to put forth special effort to win one. But the current reward structure is just built for bad outcomes: players who grind for days only to finish #11 or #51, commanders spending their entire day before the end of the event trying to find mercs, mercs alliance-hopping to get themselves an extra cover...everyone who misses out feels bad, and even the winners usually don't feel that great because they've spent a full week playing 9 nodes every four hours (mmm, overlapping subs), and that doesn't even count the 3 hour end-of-sub grinds.

Here's the thread from last time we had a top 50 reward, talking about all the reasons it was a horrible experience, with a total of +74 upvotes: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23107

It's not too late! The event hasn't started for anyone yet. You can still make this event more fun and less soul-crushing, with fewer bad feelings between alliance mates, less lost sleep, and way, way more goodwill from your player base.

(And if making your players happy doesn't convince you, let's not forget that giving more players a cover means getting more revenue from roster slots and cover upgrade purchases.)

NorthernPolarity · March 2015

It is most definitely too late, but have an upvote anyways so we might be able to sway them next time.

Unknown · March 2015

Preach on Brother MischiefMaker!

I'll go further. MPQ needs to stop the hypocrisy. On one hand, they tell us that they changed the Alliance reward cover in PVP because too many people were jumping between alliances. On the other, they run a PVE for a 4* cover that causes even more movement between alliances.

There is no justification for truncated rewards simply because the new character is a 4*. This is a one time event in which that 4* will be given out outside of top 1 or 2 in PVE's. Moreover, many players can't get 1st or 1000 in pvp, so this is their only chance outside of tokens to get a cover. We're talking 1 (or 2 with alliance reward) for most players that try really hard. We're not talking about giving out covers like it's Oprah at xmas.

I'll say this again as well. No one can convince me that having a normal reward to celebrate the release of a 4* character is a bad thing or will break the game. What a truncated rewards tier will do is tick off a bunch of players (also known as your customers) and emphatically hurts the chemistry of alliances.

Unknown · March 2015

NorthernPolarity wrote:

It is most definitely too late, but have an upvote anyways so we might be able to sway them next time.

I disagree. There is a clear precedent that the reward structure can be extended. I think we all remember the Heroic PVE in which the beginning players got more points than later players. While Demiurge_Will refused to restart the event (despite being sent a nice math book), MPQ did extend the rewards for that event.

What MPQ has refused to do in the past is change the reward covers (anniversary week for one example or the 500 progressive 3* HT in PVP for another).

Edit - Reworded so it almost makes sense.

rixmith · March 2015

Having to get Top 50 instead of Top 150 to get a single 4* cover is the most frustrating and depressing of MPQ right now. Especially with an event like The Hunt that has so many subs to do.

Unknown · March 2015

Even just extending the single cover range to top 100 would be a move in the right direction.

dkffiv · March 2015

NorthernPolarity wrote:

It is most definitely too late, but have an upvote anyways so we might be able to sway them next time.

Its too late when the first shard ends. They've changed PvP season rewards mid season, as long as nothing goes out they're free to do what they want. Hell they could change it on their end without updating the reward pages and if it came out saying "Surprise, your alliance was a top 100 finisher, here's your Professor X" how many angry forum posts would we expect?

I think its even more insulting that the top 51-150 3* cover is such a **** one. As I recall the last few 4* PvE's gave out DD and Psylocke. Couldn't they at least make it Cyclops yellow or Iron Fist black? Then it wouldn't feel like such a kick in the pants if your personal/alliance finish is just out of 4* range.

El Satanno · March 2015

The_Valeyard wrote:

Preach on Brother MischiefMaker!

I'll go further. MPQ needs to stop the hypocrisy. On one hand, they tell us that they changed the Alliance reward cover in PVP because too many people were jumping between alliances. On the other, they run a PVE for a 4* cover that causes even more movement between alliances.

There is no justification for truncated rewards simply because the new character is a 4*. This is a one time event in which that 4* will be given out outside of top 1 or 2 in PVE's. Moreover, many players can't get 1st or 1000 in pvp, so this is their only chance outside of tokens to get a cover. We're talking 1 (or 2 with alliance reward) for most players that try really hard. We're not talking about giving out covers like it's Oprah at xmas.

I'll say this again as well. No one can convince me that having a normal reward to celebrate the release of a 4* character is a bad thing or will break the game. What a truncated rewards tier will do is tick off a bunch of players (also known as your customers) and emphatically hurts the chemistry of alliances.

I'm 100% behind you and OP on this one. An extra 50 or 100 people in each bracket getting a single extra cover isn't suddenly going to cause a biblical Patrick Stewart flood. Only way that's happening is if people dump a ton of cash into the game to buy all them extra covers. Dumping cash into the game?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

You know, this also raises the truly baffling decision to make it impossible to buy a new character. They must really believe in the sucker's game of token purchases...

Anyway, if it weren't for the rewards from clearing nodes, I'd be sorely tempted to just sit this one out in protest. Not like I'll be earning enough Picard covers to make him even resemble a playable state this year.

SnowcaTT · March 2015

Putting in my voice with the others - just like I and many others have EVERY TIME they've run this stupid 4* for T50 only.

This is an alliance killer. You know how to keep people around? Create comradery, where folks enjoy not only playing the game but being there for each other and enjoying the company of others. Know how to lose people? By doing events that force people that want the rewards to leave alliances, or have alliances kick half of their members.

We T50'd the first few times: kicking (I think) 8 people the first time and 5 the second time? Last time we threw in the towel and took top half of the alliance and merged it with another - that was the "easy way"! This CAN NOT be what your intention is, right D3?

Fix this! So many upvotes last time, so many upvotes this time - I've never read a single person that enjoys a T50 structure. Stop ignoring your user base!

Unknown · March 2015

Add this the crazy scaling for some vets, and you make this event a real nightmare...

Scaling has to be addressed too, so as to make the PvEs a "somewhat" fun event.

Vinmarc43 · March 2015

But they could give one cover at a certain nod, so everyone that plays up to that point gets one. The positive side is, your customers are happy they got something RARE and D3 sell's a ton of cover and make $$$.

babinro · March 2015

Easy Fix...
Lock players scoring in their current alliance when they start an event.

If you leave your alliance mid event then your points continue to support the ORIGINAL alliance. This kills the benefits of mercing but that's effectively abusing the system through out of game communication. Something people tend to groan about in PvP so it's for the best.

As for hard feelings about finishing 1 spot out of a reward tier...that exists for ALL events. I've finished second place in tons of PvP's over the year missing out on a useful 4* cover. It happens. We're used to it.

Unknown · March 2015

I feel like we're Oliver Twist going beg the big old fat cat for more grub because the one scoop of slop was not enough. This ain't no fairy tale and this ain't ancient times. Expand the 4* reward tier at least for alliances so there is not the anarchy that has ensued for everyone of these rat races.

#WWHTDD

Edit - added for

Unknown · March 2015

babinro wrote:

Easy Fix...
Lock players scoring in their current alliance when they start an event.

If you leave your alliance mid event then your points continue to support the ORIGINAL alliance. This kills the benefits of mercing but that's effectively abusing the system through out of game communication. Something people tend to groan about in PvP so it's for the best.

As for hard feelings about finishing 1 spot out of a reward tier...that exists for ALL events. I've finished second place in tons of PvP's over the year missing out on a useful 4* cover. It happens. We're used to it.

I like the concept behind the idea, but eventually, you would have players jump the shark and start rearranging alliances before events. But that's definitely the kind of thinking we need. At some point, if MPQ is going to have alliances (and they don't want willy nilly movement between alliances) then they need to treat them with the proper due respect. Part of which is not fiddling with alliance reward structure for one specific reward type of pve.

#WWHTDD

Unknown · March 2015

I'm a pretty big proponent of maintaining a degree of rarity for 4* covers to ensure they still have value as something to aim for BUT I happen to completely agree with the OP on this one. Having the standard reward structure for the introductory PvE doesn't open the floodgates on 4* covers or even allow an excessive number of people to spend their way into immediately having the 4* in question. All the far more limited reward structure does (IMO) is make an event less fun and more stressful as well doing a VERY good job of highlighting the game's incredibly exploitable alliance reward system as ppl alliance hop all over the place to try and get that extra cover.

I also feel the biggest justification for allowing the standard reward structure is how massively... and I mean MASSIVELY rarer 4* covers are in PvE compared to PvP. In PvE it's a couple of covers per bracket for top placements whereas, in every PvP bracket i'm ever in, you're getting minimum 5 ppl over 1k, normally more like 10 AND 1st place getting another cover on top of that. Did I mention how much shorter PvP is and how much more often rewards are handed out in PvP compared to PvE which can grant 4* covers?

What harm is there in giving out more rewards to PvE-centric players on the ONE event where that 4* is released (not like they ever get in the reward structure again!) as a means of balancing things out a little? After that initial release, a bunch of those players are waiting on lucky token draws to try and get any more covers because they don't have the roster required to get the covers in PvP. As such I don't see them unbalancing the game with their 1 cover Dr X that stays at 1 cover for a LONG **** time....

Stony · March 2015

This has been an issue every time the rewards have been structured this way. We have complained, begged, pleaded for the devs to answer this. But they remain silent. It seems odd to me since they have been trying to communicate things more. Obviously, I would prefer T100 over T50, but at this point I just want some acknowledgement from the devs.

Unknown · March 2015

I have a feeling that they will review their award policy for the 4* characters as they release more of them. We might have to be patient though, because when they "review internally" something it generally takes several months at least to get a change started.

konannfriends · March 2015

The devs should realize as long as 4* is like that winning pepsi bottle cap, people are going do what ever it takes to get them.

i personally could care less. ill go for the unwanted 4*( elektra and Inv woman) since there another mans treasure ( mine)

Phumade · March 2015

Huh, Didn't realize that these are 1000 man brackets.

top 5% = 1 cover
Top 1% = 2 cover
Top .5% = 3 cover
Top .01% =4 cover

For simulator

Top .02% = 1 4* cover

Top 5% = 2 3* covers
Top 1%= 3 3* covers

Actually, the hunt seems much more generous for 4* covers.

Jonny1Punch · March 2015

If I could upvote Mischiefmaker's meaningful and important post one million times over it still wouldn't be enough.
I stalk the forums daily and rarely have anything I feel is worthwhile to say but one phrase in this topic really hit me hard.

"Even the winners usually don't feel that great".

At the end of any event we should feel excited and accomplished. Eager to experiment in the simulator with our new hero or use our hard-earned Iso to level up our roster we work so diligently to strengthen. So why after finishing top 5 in the last two new character Pve's do I feel exhausted, drained and almost resentful of my new character for all the sacrifices I made to get a measly and near worthless 3 covers?

Because it simply is RIDICULOUS to expect this level of commitment, time and dedication to a game that is alienating its own customers. I love this game and am currently on day 500...But a game should be a fun and relatively stress-free way to enjoy a break from whatever real stress we may have in life. Our ideas and suggestions are feeling largely ignored and I wonder why so many of us still carry on this way. I have messaged ICE my ideas on ways to improve the reward structure and make D3 more money and never got a response.

As Mischief already stated, I agree that if we are able to not have our souls crushed each event and win all 3 covers much easier it would be a win/win situation for all. Not only would we feel significantly less burnt out but those of us who do spend would be MUCH more inclined to buy that extra roster slot and even purchase many additional covers. In its current state I see the trend that many veterans are just selling off **** characters and not indulging in the extra roster slot/cover and Iso purchases that I am sure D3 would like.

My idea is simple: expand rewards generously to the casual, cater to the hardcore and watch the revenue expand.

Top 100 should be the norm for both solo and alliance rewards getting one cover. T50 should get two covers (the 3rd missing cover would be the alliance reward) T25 should be all three covers and here is where you can cater to the hardcore,insomniac no-life grinders: T10,T5 and T2 could be a diverse variety of many rewards. Additonal Iso(10K),a free roster slot, extra HP(300-500) and possibly even something like "Wildcard" tokens/pts where you can use them to level up ANY cover you choose. This is only my idea and dream but once again I see it as a complete win/win for everybody. As of right now the morale in the MPQ community feels tired, defeated and burnt out.

So D3 if you are reading any of this please just know that with every positive change your bank account and player base will grow.

But with every negative update,nerf and repetitive,draining event it is just one more nail in the coffin.

I do thank you all for reading this and D3 you have made many great little changes lately we do appreciate. But sadly we need your focus elsewhere for now... please focus on the important "big picture' changes.

babinro · March 2015

Jonny1Punch wrote:

My idea is simple: expand rewards generously to the casual, cater to the hardcore and watch the revenue expand.
So D3 if you are reading any of this please just know that with every positive change your bank account and player base will grow.
But with every negative update,nerf and repetitive,draining event it is just one more nail in the coffin.

I don't know if your statements here hold any truth in reality but they sound true to me. Assuming that giving players the initial covers will increase revenue for the company then why even beat around the bush to begin with? Simply give out all three cover types as part of the default progression rewards in the event. You know...those things people max out about 25 percent of the way through a major event.

This would ensure that 100% of the player base has realistic access to the covers and thus provide massive revenue increases, right?

The rest of the event reward structure could simply revert back to our typical character release...with all rewards save top 2 being ***'s.

Please change 4* pve reward structure

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