Let's talk about PVE scaling

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dr tinykittylove
dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
edited April 2015 in MPQ General Discussion
Useful data :
1) average of top 4 characters in roster.
2) round number
3) level of unboosted essential and associated wave node.
4) levels of nodes for Ultron Prime sub.

1) My roster: Average of top 4 is 154.
2) Round 5: Ultron 250 / Round 6: Ultron 300
3)
QS lvl 117
QS1 - 128-133
QS2 - 132-137
LThor lvl 153 - 136-155
Hulk lvl 153 - 93-133
GSBW lvl 141 - 89-129

Round 6 levels
QS @120 unboosted
QS1: 110-140
QS2: 136-137
IM40: 105-140
Hulk: 97-106
LCap: 155-155

4) whoops, fell asleep and forgot to add this
UP1: 96/97/96
UP2: 109
UP3: 124/125/124
UP4: 132/133/132
UP5: 137

So, how do your levels look? Please post comparisons no matter what round you're on, just note the round number so we are on the same page. icon_e_smile.gif
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Comments

  • 1) Average of top 4 is 128 (146 boosted)
    2) Round 5: Ultron 250
    3)
    QS lvl 40 (130)
    QS1: 112-117
    QS2: 112-113
    Iron Man m40 lvl40 (70): 103-104
    Hawkeye lvl 60 (90): 103-113
    GSBW lvl 94 (124): 75-101

    Not 100% on boosted levels since everything is locked, can't check.
  • Ryz-aus
    Ryz-aus Posts: 386
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    1) 244 - will have to check boosted later.
    2) Round 5: Ultron 250
    3)
    icon_quicksilver.png : 212-216
    icon_quicksilver.png : 212-212
    icon_blackwidow.png : 147-186
    icon_ironman.png : 188-189
    icon_hawkeye.png : 188-212

    I think my scaling earlier for thor was higher, so it may be separate for each essential hero. I have a maxed version of every essential except quicksilver who is still level 40 (8 covers), but I go for those refreshes first for the hp and token chance.

    Edit: just made it to round 6 - the non icon_quicksilver.png nodes difficulty went up without any play by me.
    icon_blackwidow.png : 147-216
    icon_ironman.png : 218-219
    icon_hawkeye.png : 212-219

    4) Ultron Prime nodes:
    155, 178, 165, 182 for the completed ones. Yes, the third one was lower level than the second one.
    Remaining show as 216, 216, 245, 248.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2015
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    Top 4 characters: XForce (221), Cap, Thor, Grocket, Hood (166)

    Prime:

    1) 112/113/113
    2) 128/129/128
    3) 123/124/124
    4) 132/133/132
    5) 159/159/159
    6) 159/159/159
    7) 177/178/178
    8) 181/182/181

    QS (lvl 40) 155, 155-159
    Hawkeye (lvl 1) 139-155
    Iron Man (lvl 102) 139-140
    Black Widow (lvl 94, OBW is higher than GSBW) 105-137
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    As someone who typically grinds PvE pretty hard, I started to wonder why this event was starting to feel too grindy to me, and yet no one else in my alliance was complaining about it yet. Even more confusing when you realize how much we love to complain. Then I discovered that my side nodes were all lv212, and their's were all lv155.

    Sorry, but this is indefensible. I shouldn't be getting penalized for having a lv270 XForce that is completely useless in this event. I totally get that this event is targeted towards new and/or casual players as a movie tie-in. I have no problem if you want to give them lv20 opponents all day and night. But within my alliance, we're generally similar players with similar rosters, and we're playing these Ultron nodes with EXACTLY THE SAME CHARACTERS. I am not a match-3 savant. I have no special abilities that justify seeing opponents that are 60 levels higher than my alliance-mates.
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
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    simonsez wrote:
    As someone who typically grinds PvE pretty hard, I started to wonder why this event was starting to feel too grindy to me, and yet no one else in my alliance was complaining about it yet. Even more confusing when you realize how much we love to complain. Then I discovered that my side nodes were all lv212, and their's were all lv155.

    Sorry, but this is indefensible. I shouldn't be getting penalized for having a lv270 XForce that is completely useless in this event. I totally get that this event is targeted towards new and/or casual players as a movie tie-in. I have no problem if you want to give them lv20 opponents all day and night. But within my alliance, we're generally similar players with similar rosters, and we're playing these Ultron nodes with EXACTLY THE SAME CHARACTERS. I am not a match-3 savant. I have no special abilities that justify seeing opponents that are 60 levels higher than my alliance-mates.

    In this or any PVE. The scaling is based so the newer players can compete in these, but it is driving the vets away. I stopped playing PVE for this reason, and this is just a PVE in special makeup. Eventually your new players will be vets. No one should be punished for their accomplishments later in the game, or having good levels on the characters you deem "essential".
  • kidicarus
    kidicarus Posts: 420 Mover and Shaker
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    Just for academic purposes

    1) My roster: Vet(21 166s, 270x4hors, 220 fury and every other char barring Yelena).
    2) Round 6: Ultron 300
    3) Clockwise from top
    QS lvl 212-216
    QS1 - 212-212
    GSBW - 147-186
    IM40 lvl 188-189
    Hawkeye lvl 188-212

    edit: I have already done one pass of Rd 6.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    kidicarus wrote:
    Just for academic purposes

    1) My roster: Vet(21 166s, 270x4hors, 220 fury and every other char barring Yelena).
    2) Round 6: Ultron 300
    3) Clockwise from top
    QS lvl 212-216
    QS1 - 212-212
    GSBW - 147-186
    IM40 lvl 188-189
    Hawkeye lvl 188-212

    edit: I have already done one pass of Rd 6.
    Yup same levels here.

    I was naive enough to hope that this event would tone down scaling after the nerfs to throw vets a bone.
    Nope.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Bowgentle wrote:
    kidicarus wrote:
    Just for academic purposes

    1) My roster: Vet(21 166s, 270x4hors, 220 fury and every other char barring Yelena).
    2) Round 6: Ultron 300
    3) Clockwise from top
    QS lvl 212-216
    QS1 - 212-212
    GSBW - 147-186
    IM40 lvl 188-189
    Hawkeye lvl 188-212

    edit: I have already done one pass of Rd 6.
    Yup same levels here.

    I was naive enough to hope that this event would tone down scaling after the nerfs to throw vets a bone.
    Nope.
    My IM40 node was 219. They didn't throw me a bone; they beat me over the head with it.
  • kidicarus
    kidicarus Posts: 420 Mover and Shaker
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    kidicarus wrote:
    Just for academic purposes

    1) My roster: Vet(21 166s, 270x4hors, 220 fury and every other char barring Yelena).
    2) Round 6: Ultron 300
    3) Clockwise from top
    QS lvl 212-216 (152-189)
    QS1 - 212-212 (185-186)
    GSBW - 147-186 (IM40147-189)
    IM40 lvl 188-189 (hulk 133 - 147)
    Hawkeye lvl 188-212 (lazycap 212)

    edit: I have already done one pass of Rd 6.

    Ok, my essential nodes just reset and I have new levels in brackets. Still round 6 - weird.
  • Ludaa
    Ludaa Posts: 542
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    230 Xf, 221 GT, lots of 166's...

    My scaling for round 7
    QS1 129-163
    QS2 159-159
    IM 124-163
    Hulk 114-125
    Cap 181-182

    Ultron lvl350
    Ultron Prime #7 @208 and #8 @212

    Yikes, looks like I've got it easy
  • This event just highlights scaling more because Ultron Sentries are extremely sensitive to a level advantage or disadvantage. I was reading people who say it's easy with soandso and I tried it and was like 'how can this possibly work?' and then I check the levels. For example all the Ultron Sentries can punch through Patch's regen just fine. Doesn't mean I can't win with Patch but when your health is consistently going down each turn then waiting for the Berserker Rage + Trickery suddenly seems pretty scary. I guess they must have figured that since Ultron is at a static level that makes everything fine but Ultron is way easier than his Sentries.
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
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    T4 average: 173
    Round: 7 Ultron: 350
    QS1: 93-140
    QS2: 136-137
    Prime 1: 96 cleared
    Prime 2: 109 cleared
    Prime 3: 106 cleared
    Prime 4: 112
    Prime 5: 136
    Prime 6: 136
    Prime 7: 151 locked
    Prime 8: 181 locked
  • Just noticed something and this was the thread with the closest topic:

    yesterday I noticed that the HP from sentries was bumped from 3.3k to 5.5 from ultron 5 to ultron 6; today's essentials has a similar lv, around 110~120, but their HP is back to ~3.3k on ultron 7.

    Anyone else experienced the same?
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
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    6 unlocked. 250/6x 166 including Thor/Hulk (both buffed). Most 3*'s at 140 or 127 (so tons of total levels, if that matters). Almost at first QS progression.

    QS: 129-182
    QS: 162-186
    Thor: 181-189
    Hulk: 181-182
    Widow: 162-189

    Did the easier QS node to finish the level 5 Ultron, and all of these were about 15 levels easier before 6 was unlocked.
  • Ryz-aus
    Ryz-aus Posts: 386
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    Ryz-aus wrote:
    1) 244 - will have to check boosted later.
    2) Round 5: Ultron 250
    3)
    icon_quicksilver.png : 212-216
    icon_quicksilver.png : 212-212
    icon_blackwidow.png : 147-186
    icon_ironman.png : 188-189
    icon_hawkeye.png : 188-212

    I think my scaling earlier for thor was higher, so it may be separate for each essential hero. I have a maxed version of every essential except quicksilver who is still level 40 (8 covers), but I go for those refreshes first for the hp and token chance.

    Edit: just made it to round 6 - the non icon_quicksilver.png nodes difficulty went up without any play by me.
    icon_blackwidow.png : 147-216
    icon_ironman.png : 218-219
    icon_hawkeye.png : 212-219

    4) Ultron Prime nodes:
    155, 178, 165, 182 for the completed ones. Yes, the third one was lower level than the second one.
    Remaining show as 216, 216, 245, 248.

    Update for round 7:
    Ultron 350
    icon_quicksilver.png : 218-251
    icon_quicksilver.png : 152-248
    icon_blackwidow.png : 218-254
    icon_hulk.png : 212-212
    icon_thor.png : 212-254

    Last ultron prime level also got harder - level 290 now. I haven't increased the level of my roster at all, but did get two quicksilver covers.
  • GT/XF at 250, 10x166s, 15x100-140s
    Round 7.

    From top, clockwise

    1- QS 185-189
    2- QS 129-182
    3- BW 188-189
    4- Hulk 181-182
    5- Thor 181-189


    I'm actually surprised to know there's any variety, I thought they were all the same level.

    My Ultron Prime finale is 248. First round is 132. These have also been basically the same so far (actually the last one at 186 was the easiest, but good boards will do that)
  • ArkPrime wrote:
    GT/XF at 250, 10x166s, 15x100-140s
    Round 7.

    From top, clockwise

    1- QS 185-189
    2- QS 129-182
    3- BW 188-189
    4- Hulk 181-182
    5- Thor 181-189


    I'm actually surprised to know there's any variety, I thought they were all the same level.

    My Ultron Prime finale is 248. First round is 132. These have also been basically the same so far (actually the last one at 186 was the easiest, but good boards will do that)

    Your levels are exactly the same as mine (though I'm on round 5). I don't even think the levels on the Ultron Sentries ever go up as a function of round number because I think they've been at those levels since round 1. Sucks to be the guy with higher than those numbers, because it's already pretty brutal at these numbers.

    It seems to me the enjoyment of this event is entirely dependent on how much scaling likes you. I can manage at those numbers, but if they go up to 200-220 it'd be pretty painful. I'm sure I can still beat it, but I'd no longer be looking forward to playing any of those nodes. Seems like there are maybe 4 different distinct settings for this event? It sure isn't like a normal event where you'd have a hard time finding two guys with the same enemy level on any particular node.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Phantron wrote:
    It seems to me the enjoyment of this event is entirely dependent on how much scaling likes you. I can manage at those numbers, but if they go up to 200-220 it'd be pretty painful.
    It is. Extremely.

    Seriously, to whom do I petition to get my scaling reassessed? You guys are PvE animals. It makes no sense why I'm getting hung out to dry like this.
  • Eddiemon
    Eddiemon Posts: 1,470 Chairperson of the Boards
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    simonsez wrote:
    I shouldn't be getting penalized for having a lv270 XForce that is completely useless in this event.

    Say what?

    X Force, Iron Fist and Laken are my go to guys in the bomb drop missions. X Force, Iron Fist and Spidey for Ultron Prime.

    He's still the biggest single target damage dealer in the game.
  • Eddiemon
    Eddiemon Posts: 1,470 Chairperson of the Boards
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    simonsez wrote:
    Seriously, to whom do I petition to get my scaling reassessed? You guys are PvE animals. It makes no sense why I'm getting hung out to dry like this.

    Yet in your earleir post you said that you grind PvE 'pretty hard'. That's where your scaling is coming from. Your performance and history has more bearing than your roster.